Supply Chain
Technology Podcast

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

ESG strategy, sustainability, carbon footprint, stakeholder management, business culture, renewable energy, supply chain, carbon neutral, ESG framework, governance, social sustainability, environmental impact, competitive advantage, partnerships, training programs.

SPEAKERS

Aikaansh Rana, Andrea Goeman, Scott Mears

Scott Mears  00:00

ESG should be a part of every company strategy?

Andrea Goeman  00:03

Of course, yes.

Scott Mears  00:04

Supply chain heroes need more real time business intelligence?

Andrea Goeman  00:08

Yes.

Scott Mears  00:08

All supply chain heroes should support Werder Bremen Football Team?

Andrea Goeman  00:13

Positive.

Scott Mears  00:23

Welcome to the Supply Chain Tech Podcast with Roambee. Scott Mears here Global Field Marketing Manager at Roambee and one of the hosts of the Supply Chain Tech Podcast. We thank you for joining us today. In this episode, we speak with Andrea Goeman. Andrea is the Senior Vice President of Sustainability at JAS Worldwide. We discuss how to build a future proof ESG strategy, and the importance of getting the buy in from all of your stakeholders. We also discuss the importance of building a business culture that attracts, develops and retains the leadership talent and skills needed to drive an ESG strategy, and we break down some of the misconceptions of the negative impact an ESG strategy can have on our company. Hi Andrea, it’s great to have you on the episode. How you doing today?

Andrea Goeman  01:16

Thank you so much, Scott. Thanks for having me on your Roambee Podcast. I’m well.

Scott Mears  01:22

Wonderful Andrea, and it’s wonderful to have you on. I want to get straight into it. And I, you know, I’m excited this icebreaker because, you know, my icebreaker question tends to be usually around, you know, what role would you be within supply chain if it wasn’t the role you have today? But when I was learning more about you, and, you know, building out this episode, I quickly realized how much what you do as a career is also a part of your life. So I mean, I saw you mentioned that you and your family even leads an almost carbon neutral life, and I would love to learn more what inspired you to live this way.

Andrea Goeman  02:01

Yeah, thanks. Great. A great intro question, I think so for me, I got in the topic of renewable energies very early on, maybe before, like, now, it’s very popular to install solar panels. So we as a family did it already, like, I think, 15 years ago, and it really saved us a lot of costs and to have, like, be more self sufficient when it comes to energy production. And we also did do that for for example, warm water. And just a few examples I have also my kids. They are for them, it’s lateral to reuse things to use, for example, clothes that are pre use. We buy a lot of stuff that is not new. So for us, it’s, I think, a natural topic. It doesn’t even like changes anything what we do right now. So it’s a natural I try to implement that wherever possible. Just try to make best use of resources in my life. And for example, another topic is transportation. So I here in Germany, where I live, it’s very easy to commute and to use public transport the train for long distances. In other region, it might not be possible, and we still have a diesel car as well. So I’m not 100% carbon neutral, but I try to be as much as possible.

Scott Mears  03:28

Absolutely. Yeah, you’re doing your part. And you know, it’s so true that I love how you know you really living and breathing what you’re doing on a day to day basis. And I feel that puts your, you know, a different level and different perspective of what you’re trying to achieve at JAS worldwide, and to what you’re trying to achieve in your strategy. That’s, it’s, you know, it’s really wonderful to see. And we’re going to dive into, you know, really specifically, ESG, how companies should approach, ESG, whether it should be a part of their strategy, which I think we all know the answer to that today, but we’re going to dive into, you know, really understanding the strategy of it and how, you know, how we can start it, and also maybe some concerns with what comes with it as well. So I first of all want to start with is, I mean, every event we go to, you know, every association, we always see everyone talk very proudly about their 2050, goals. You know, we’re going to be carbon neutral. It’s always, you know, the big flashy item at the end where this is what we’re going to do. And there’s not always a great amount of detail of how they’re going to get there. So I would just really love to help the businesses out there who are trying to achieve these goals and and trying to understand how to navigate that is, how does a company approach ESG, what? What are even the initial steps that they should be doing to even approach ESG, in their business?

Andrea Goeman  04:54

Yeah, great question. So, so I started in 2023 at JAS Worldwide, implementing, really, this ESG strategy and this, implementing this whole function. So I think I can give some hints there that might also be valuable for for the listeners. So when we approach ESG, I think coming from the sustainability space, we were always focusing a lot on the E part, on the what you just mentioned, on the carbon zero targets, 2050 etc. And I think this is still, like very important for many of our customers, of our suppliers, for the whole supply chain, basically. So before you set these kind of goals, before you go, like, towards marketing campaigns, etc, it’s super important that you analyze the own footprint and their own housekeeping of your company. So how do you what are your biggest emitters? For example, when it comes to scope 123, emissions. So scope one emissions would be like your own production, your own factories, your own vehicles. What is your carbon footprint there? Then the scope two emissions would be like the energy procurement, like on a when you operate globally, there will be bigger differences. Yeah, when it comes to energy procurement, the utility providers in some countries might be able to provide already renewable energies, but in other countries, it’s not available. And the most distinguishes, of course, scope three emissions. So these are like all upstream and downstream emissions in your supply chain. So calculating that and engaging with your colleagues and with your also with your suppliers to have like a initial status quo of your carbon footprint, set a baseline, and then go from there. And the same goes for the social topics. Yeah, analyze what, what is your employee share from a gender perspective, from an age perspective, from like, a diversity perspective, and go from there. And then, then you you can be able, when you engage with your colleagues, with the management, to really set the proper targets. So I think at the beginning, you need a lot of commitment, a lot of stakeholder management in this function before you can get started, really to to implement it operationally and sell it. So I think a lot of commitment, a lot of education is necessary for an organization if you really want to build it new.

Scott Mears  07:28

I’m hearing what you’re saying there, and the piece that I really take from that is I feel the companies really need to take from that as well as it is doing the work before you know that marketing campaign, you know, doing that analysis and getting, like you said, this stakeholder buy in, you know, getting the buy in that, you know, we’re going to be able to actually start implementing what we’ve planned out and what opportunities we’ve seen, you know, doing that work before we start, you know, jumping on it because, you know, it’s an attractive thing for our business. Maybe adds a competitive edge, or we have to do it. So I really appreciate that you’re saying that, you know, do the, you know, the basics first, do the work and really look at what you need to be doing to actually achieve those goals first. And of course, you know, this is a new strategy for a lot of companies, and it’s new ground. And how do you feel like our board needs to evolve to oversee this, you know, enable and support the delivery of our ESG strategy?

Andrea Goeman  08:29

Yeah, definitely. So I think you you hear a lot about big corporations making commitments towards ESG or sustainability targets right now. But for me as leader in the sustainability field, it’s, it’s super important as first step that I have the Yeah, the direction and the clear direction that we go, go into the sustainability implementation. All in, yeah. So it’s, it will touch almost every department, every function of a company. So it’s not only nice to have or make like some some small strategy PowerPoint slides, but you really have to embed it in like, how you procure your services, how you engage with your suppliers. And then in the next step, of course, you need to make this offering also to your customers, to to fulfill their needs. No so I think for me, what how I approach this is really engage very closely with with all board members, no matter who you report to. So, for example, I report to the Chief Operations Officer here at JAS, and it’s, of course, very linked to our business, to our air freight, ocean freight solutions, for example, at JAS. But I on the same at the same time, I also engage with our CEO, with our chairman, and also with sales and finance. For example, our IT colleagues. So they all need to, like embrace the topic and need to embed it in their decision making. And this is, of course, a challenge, because everybody’s coming from a different background. Some people are more or less open to change. So I think it’s an ongoing journey, but once you have the commitment from the top management, it’s much easier. And this, this might sometimes take a few months to really, like, get to know a company, or really, yeah, educate and engage with these senior management of your company, but it’s essential.

Scott Mears  10:36

Absolutely, and I like that how you’re you know, you’re not just going to the board, or just to who you even report to. You’re going, you know, above that, around that, to the sales, even to the, you know, it every part, I think maybe not all companies think of that to that level, because it, you’re so right, it, it feels like it, it’s a much more. It’s a shift within the whole company. Rather than just implementing a single strategy within a single department, it seems to be much more a whole shift of the mindset and culture of the business as a whole.

Andrea Goeman  11:07

Exactly. Maybe one one more comment to that, because it’s also mitigating risks. Yeah. So for me, it’s always like essential to to make a company a future already. And if you see this topic only one sided, or say, like just some person we have hired for this topic, and go only with this approach, it’s a huge risk not to make it a tangible for the business and for for your stakeholders. So I think really close engagement also have the full mandate for the topic, to drive it through the organization.

Scott Mears  11:40

How do you build, then, an ESG framework that is future proof for tomorrow’s economic realities?

Andrea Goeman  11:48

Yeah, that’s a good question. This is like a consulting question, yeah? So of course, we focus on all ESG, environmental, social and governance perspective of sustainability. So we need to after we analyze our own carbon footprint, where, like our hotspots, not only from a business unit perspective, but also from a geographic perspective, like in which kind of countries do we have our biggest footprint? For example, then we can build concrete measures to reduce our CO two footprint and to work towards these goals in the future. Yeah. So from an environmental perspective, when I think about freight forwarding or logistics companies, of course we have the biggest lever to reduce emissions from our main transport. This is often land transport, air freight, ocean freight, but also, for example, rail or other logistics services. So we have also have our buildings that we can equip with more than more renewable power equipment, for example, or circular economy to really recycle, reuse, rebuild things in our supply chains. On the other side, we have the s part. So this is for me, when we think about the supply chain and our operations, a lot of HSSE topics, so health, safety, security and the environment. So engage and train our workforce, also our frontline workers. This is crucial, train them to yeah, go home, safe. This is also social sustainability. Then we have, of course, our dei initiatives, diversity, equality and inclusion. And we have also volunteering activities. So for example, we have an Company Foundation where we also support local volunteering or relief, good campaigns, for example. And the G part, the governance part, is essential, of course. How do we build the whole good governance around ESG into our company? How do we measure the progress. How do we train people and measure the progress of the training, for example, so the governance part and creating the right policies, the the correct compliance procedures for our company is, is key to have this future proof and also reliable ESG setup in a company, and it’s it might take some time you see you, you touch a lot of departments, and otherwise you cannot connect really the dots within the company. Yeah, so it connects to a lot like economic performance of a company, because sometimes you cannot even make business with customers that really prioritize sustainability in their supply chain if you don’t have this proper setup. So it’s for us a lot to do, but it mitigates risk and makes us even stronger as a company, I think.

Scott Mears  14:58

I am really starting to learn how. You know, how much of a whole picture this is, you know, the how, how involved the whole company is, and how many angles you really need to you really need to make sure you’re really putting a lot of attention into each part of the ESG model, through environmental, social and I want to move more to the culture side now, because, as we all know, the the core of any business is the people, and you know, the culture of those people and, and you mentioned a little bit earlier about, you know, people, some people maybe not wanting to change, or maybe not even understanding why we should change, so that I could see that being quite a challenge, especially, you know, when it’s we’ve always done it a certain way, and then something new comes. I mean, the technology is amazing, where we’re moving to now, within supply chain, especially, how do you feel we create that the right business culture to engage our people and reinforce the right behaviors we need in order to attract and develop those skills of the ESG strategy?

Andrea Goeman  16:07

Yeah? That’s also a great question, because it’s all about the people, especially in our industry, we are like a third party logistics provider, so it’s all about our people, and that’s also our company. Yeah, core value, I would say, people make the difference and really make it easy for them to get engaged and inspiring them about ESG is is key to us. So how do we do it? For example, we roll out programs to engage them on the branch or office level, yeah? So we have a green offices program, which we already implemented in a few countries very successfully, and they can implement easy actions, for example, for Yeah, fostering better recycling practices in their warehouse or in their office, Easy energy saving measures, or also, yeah, volunteering activities in their own space. And this, this keeps them very engaged around the topic and makes it more tangible to them. On the other side, we also have, like the business sustainability so our colleagues also need to understand, What can I offer? How do I need to embed that in my daily life, from an operations but also from a sales perspective. So we, we as a department, need to create the right trainings, the right engagement with our global colleagues, and I think we are like a middle sized freight forwarder. We are still family owned, and it’s quite, I wouldn’t say easy, but it’s the people in our JAS world. We’re waiting for this kind of engagement, so it’s great to receive this feedback and also to see people willing to really participate in this kind of programs.

Scott Mears  17:58

Wow, that really tells you a lot about JAS Worldwide. JAS Worldwide as a whole, you know, the fact you’ve remained those family core values, and they’re willing and ready to change. You know that that’s not always the same for every company. So that’s, you know, really great thing to see. JAS has remained that and, you know, it enables you to be agile now, and, you know, move with what you need to do of ESG, and I also want to touch on cultures of the world. You know, we’ve we’ve touched on the culture of the actual company, but cultures of the world. And you know, every culture and different country will have different parameters, different approaches to ESG. I feel this could be maybe one of the most challenging parts of it is, how do we make ESG more tangible, where it includes all the cultures needs and interests within the ESG strategy?

Andrea Goeman  18:55

Yeah, right. So we operate worldwide, as our name says. So, for example, in Europe, I think we are already quite advanced from a sustainability perspective. So we are more used to, how can we save resources? How can we really implement that in our daily life, not only in our work life, but then, when I talk or visit other regions, it’s kind of different. So for them, it’s kind of a new topic. They are maybe little bit afraid that they have to sacrifice something for for like these kind of new topics. And I think it’s important that we make it a nice topic that can create benefits for them, maybe from a business perspective, winning more business, but also like maybe change only small things also in their personal space, and might say, of course, or might make them feel better. Sometimes it’s really small and easy. Changes that inspire, that can inspire colleagues worldwide and. We also have to be realistic. I think we cannot touch everybody with this topic, because some people are just not so open to change, and that’s also okay. I think at least they should have the offering to take these trainings or to have these programs in place, and then they can decide if they want to take part in it, or if they say, Now, I’m not willing to change, for example, right? So I’m you also have to be realistic. You cannot reach everyone with this topic at this time.

Scott Mears  20:33

And it’s interesting. You mentioned that you know, it’s okay if you know not everyone changes, and you know people have different approaches to things, but does that, then maybe create a challenge for the company, if it’s moving in a certain direction and trying to, you know, evolve this strategy, and there’s a percentage of the company that doesn’t feel that way, doesn’t that, then put you at a bit of a crossroad as a company. Yeah,

Andrea Goeman  20:59

I think this challenge all corporations face this challenge. So I think, like a 20% of all employees might be always super open for change. Are really passionate about these kind of new topics, be it sustainability or innovation or digitalization, for example. And then you have, like the the middle piece of employees, like the most part, they are, like, little bit neutral, they are supportive, they are engaging, but maybe not so passionate, like, not really ambassadors for a topic. And then you also have 20% or so that are maybe not, not so willing again, to engage with this topic. And I think that’s okay. So for me, it’s like you cannot get 100% employees that are say, like, wow, we are all in for sustainability, because it’s a journey. So we at the beginning of the journey, also in the supply chain sector, we need to create a lot of transparency. And yeah, I think it’s a good beginning if we have a lot of people waiting for that and engaging, but yeah, you also have to be realistic about your goals, like define smart goals. I think that’s that’s key for us. Yeah,

Scott Mears  22:11

I appreciate that breakdown, and I think that’s it. I appreciate you know we’re really learning here how you need to really do your homework of making sure you do your analysis and really getting everyone on board within the company as much as you can before going out and, you know, making it public, and also being real, realistic with what you can achieve within the time and and what part of the business is going to move, maybe different, you know, regions are going to move at different different speeds due to different standards, different cultures. So I really appreciate that transparency of a very realistic approach to the strategy, rather than just saying we’re going to shoot for the moon and we’re going to do it everywhere, we’re going to be the best. I think that’s a very great approach.

Andrea Goeman  23:00

Thank you.

Scott Mears  23:01

And on the success side, because I think this is also becoming very challenging for companies, is, how do we vet company performance of ECG? Because it’s, you know, again, this is a lot of this is new for a lot of companies, and trying to understand how it works within their company. And really they’re kind of evolving it for the first time with with their employees next. And so how do they even vet the performance of ECG,

Andrea Goeman  23:30

yeah, so for example, in for for all sectors, not only in the logistics or supply chain sector, there are, yeah, many ratings and rankings around ESG and sustainability. Some of them are called, for example, CDP carbon disclosure project or EcoVadis, which is really evaluating all ESG factors. And these are, like, quite common standard, but there are also many, like more investor relevant ESG ratings nowadays, like Sustainalytics or others, yeah, or the big rating agencies, for example, they also vet ESG performance nowadays. So it’s a very important financial metric nowadays. I mean, when you when you see, for example, Larry Fink talking in his yearly CEO uh speech, he he always covers a lot of ESG and sustainability in it, and it’s like a topic that won’t go away anymore. So it’s important that you comply, of course, with these ratings that are relevant for your industry or for your company, and you have to renew them, and ultimately get better every year. So this is important, and it’s an ongoing process, I think, to to really set the right policies and. What, what is needed, what kind of regulations are evolving worldwide? And, yeah, and ultimately, how can you create an USP for you as a company to be better than the competition? I mean, that’s, that’s also an important thing. I think, yeah, comparability,

Scott Mears  25:18

Absolutely. And, and that that’s really good to hear all those, you know, you mentioned quite a few calculations that I wasn’t aware of, that, you know, I’m learning here that that that’s really good to hear that, you know, the individual industries have already have quite a few different vetting measurements that they can actually, you know, see the success the ESG, which is great and, and you said, you know, you have to evolve each year. Do you feel there’s still a lot of standards we need to bring in to help vet this? And how do we do that? Does that involve more partnership? Yeah,

Andrea Goeman  25:52

I think so, absolutely so right now, from our many of our customers, we get, like, their own questionnaires, some some goal via vetting platforms, for example, and send out these questionnaires to us. Some of them, we only engage in the RFQ or tender process. It’s very different. And I think also for our customers, or many industries, it’s super difficult to really compare who’s outperforming who’s only compliant, or who might be a possible risk for my supply chain. So I think a lot of partnership is needed, especially for our sector. I’m always engaged to push that forward. For example, in logistic, we have the smart Trade Center. It’s an NGO, and that really pushing for standard when, when it comes to emission calculation, but also in regards to partnership in our industry, I think this, this kind of partnerships are super important. But also, like the vetting mechanism, very, very diverse at the moment. So it’s, it’s a lot of work for companies right now, because there’s no global standard.

Scott Mears  27:02

And it comes again down to whenever, you know, I have conversation on this podcast, at events with customers and businesses around the world, everyone agrees that we need to part, we need more partnerships, and everyone agrees, you know, nearly everything where you know we’re trying To understand or trying to figure out a resolution. At the core of it, a partnership would always support that and sharing the knowledge and and ability to advance, you know, the standards in this case, so then we can better understand how to approach this. It really does show how coming together can have such an impact on pushing our companies forward. And it’s just so interesting that it comes up again and again. Yeah, definitely. And I just want to quick touch on some, you know, I always like to do the full rounded picture of any topic that we discuss, or maybe some more the concerns of, you know, ESG. And we have very much delved into how you build ESG, the approach and, you know, making sure you have all the buy in of your your your company, around the world, every culture, every stakeholder. But on the other side is, I was wondering if, if ESG is undermining the company’s competitiveness, especially when taking into consideration competitors that are operating out of countries that are much more laid back in their rules and regulations. How do we find that balance?

Andrea Goeman  28:31

That’s a good question. Yeah, that was also always a good argument to say, like, oh, let’s just deep prioritize ESG in the past, yeah, because some regions are just more ambitious towards it, yeah. But I think on the one hand, you have a huge risk that you cannot operate anymore, or don’t get a business anymore if you don’t prioritize ESG or be at least compliant towards regulations and towards your customers, and also for from the regulations from the government, yeah, and on the other side, it can be, also be a USP for a company, like really engaging and consulting the customer towards ESG and enabling them to choose the right products, for example, or how can they achieve, like, a better perception for their end customers, or mitigate risk in their own supply chains? So I think right now, it’s the opposite way. It’s not, not about less competitiveness. Is, for me, it’s about more competitiveness with this, with this topic, because it’s so important, and now we have the regulations, not only in Europe, but also in other countries coming up. So this topic, again, won’t go away anymore. So it’s, it’s, it’s, the sooner we start, the better we we we are off.

Scott Mears  29:56

From my perspective, that’s a great answer. Side, yeah, fantastic. Answer that question. And I’ll just hit us with one more challenge on it is, I mean, I feel like you did very much. Answer it there, actually, but does driving ESG agenda mean in cases, sometimes sacrificing company returns?

Andrea Goeman  30:19

Yeah, that’s also good question. I mean, depending how you structure your ESG program, if you want to build a budget for that, or if you say, Okay, I just, for example, have a department for for sustainability. So for me, it’s about engagement throughout the supply chain. So you, you can, of course, make the choices I rather go with this, like, for example, in the supply chain with a direct flight, I’m only offering, like, a sustainable solution for my customers as a standard. And say, like, Okay, if you want, like, have the cheaper, cheaper solution, then it’s not, sustainable. So this, this giving the options to the customers. I think that’s important to me, and then they can choose themselves, what how they want to go and how they want to embed their sustainability, yeah, supply chain agenda, and I think it’s not sacrificing any returns, because you still have the options, like a normal option and a sustainable option at the beginning. I think being the new normal as an option that that will take maybe one more decade or so, because right now, there’s still we have the sustainability products that they still present, like a niche market, or like, have a pilot corrector for me. So it’s still we are on the way to to becoming more more and more sustainable in the supply chain.

Scott Mears  31:51

That’s interesting. You said. So you know, a decade away from it becoming that, that norm, that normality, and I like how you do it in in the current times, is giving them that option. So, you know, you can still support this. You know, they can make those decisions. Your customers can make those decisions, I like. And it’s also moving and shifting that mindset of the industry more and more to, you know, in a decades time where that becomes much more of a normal and an expected part of the supply chain process. Before we get on to our final fun segment, I would just like to ask you one final question on on this subject is what, what would be your final comments to a to a company trying to build out that ESG strategy for the first time?

Andrea Goeman  32:40

Yeah, I would say start now sooner, better sooner than later, and engage with the topic and be open for for like, new factors in your supply chain. That’s very important. You don’t need to have studied sustainability or be like a super expert about this topic. There’s so many education out there. Also like free educational programs. So it’s important to get started and also to commit to the topic. If you are management or CEO, it’s important to engage with this topic and to break it down to your middle management, and ultimately, also to everyone. Because if you just want to make it like a broad topic, it’s it’s not relevant enough for your organization, from my perspective, so make it tangible for for the organization, also for for the for the whole leadership team.

Scott Mears  33:38

Fantastic answer and and I hope everyone’s listening there. That really is, you know, really important to take that home as the final few comments there. And I always like to finish the episode of a fun little last segment. And I behind the scenes, I asked Andrea a personal question, which may be in this, in the questions, which would be a quite nice question within this segment. So what I want us to do is I’m going to ask you about six different questions. It’s very fast paced, and if you could just give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down, and also, if you could just say it also, and then it lets our audio listeners also know whether you gave it.

Andrea Goeman  34:21

Sure? Yes, brilliant.

Scott Mears  34:25

So there’s gonna be six questions, and we’ll go for it. One, ESG should be a part of every company’s strategy.

Andrea Goeman  34:34

Of course, yes.

Scott Mears  34:37

Supply Chain heroes need more real time business intelligence.

Andrea Goeman  34:42

Yes.

Scott Mears  34:44

All supply chain heroes should support Werder Bremen Football Team.

Andrea Goeman  34:49

Yes, positive.

Scott Mears  34:54

Question, if you then, I recommend you to look them up. It’s. Um, ESG is undermining the competitiveness of companies.

Aikaansh Rana  35:05

No, because it can be a competitive advantage,

Scott Mears  35:10

Companies need to become more sustainable.

Andrea Goeman  35:14

Yeah, of course, that’s the biggest challenge of our time.

Scott Mears  35:18

We need to we need more collaboration and partnerships to help us build industry ESG standards.

Andrea Goeman  35:25

Yes.

Scott Mears  35:26

Fantastic. Well, it was absolutely, an absolute pleasure to have you on, Andrea. I really thank you for coming on the episode today.

Andrea Goeman  35:34

Thank you so much, Scott. It was a pleasure.

Scott Mears  35:38

Thank you. Just give the listeners and the watchers a little wave goodbye to ya and say thank you very much, and we’ll see you again next time.

Andrea Goeman  35:46

Thank you.

Scott Mears  35:48

Hi, my name is Scott Mears, and I’m one of the hosts of the Supply Chain Tech Podcast with Roambee. On this podcast we talk to supply chain heroes from around the world about everything, ranging from the disruptions related to supply chains, their personal experiences with tracking technologies, strategies to build resilience, and much, much more. We already have some recommended videos for you to the side of me, and if any of this sounds interesting to you, do subscribe to our Youtube channel and hit the bell icon so you don’t miss another Roambee video. I’ll see you next time.